User talk:MoffRebus
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the Sun Wan Lu page. If you need help, read through our help pages or contact a . If there are no active admins here, stop by Community Central and check out our forums. Looking for live help? Then join us for an upcoming webinar to chat with staff and other Wikia editors. You can also check our Staff blog to keep up-to-date with the latest news and events around Wikia. Lastly, check out the Wikia Video Library, where you can find premium licensed videos to add to the wiki. All of these links are a great way to start exploring Wikia. Happy editing, Sarah Manley (help forum | blog) Tri-System I'm not going to begin to guess when historically it was founded, in comparison to the Terran Confederations's history... It definitely seems to have references to modern earth history & popculture (a guy with a callsign Tex, and some distinctively modern English names). Naming conventions for planets seem to lean towards Greeks and Romans though. The Tri-System is older than the Terran Confederation though, the first planet colonized Anhur is much older (between 2-3 thousand years old) than any other Terran colonized planet which is odd... Most of its technology has been developed in system and parallel to the Terran Confederation (both Confederations independently developed Terraforming, for example), but they seem to lack long distance jump drives, and are isolated in there system. A basic Talon ship is exciting technology to them (is it because of its jump drive, or does it have better armor or shield classes than their technology allows?). Tri-System does appear to be parallel to Terran's as the Terran Confederation is aware of their systems but has no known jump points into the system (according to Prophecy galaxy chart) so it is just as much isolated to both Confederations (beyond the lone Talon pilot that found a way there). Is time travel involved? In which case first humans reached the system backwards in time placing it parallel to the Confederation? Was it seeded by aliens way in the past, who formed Anhur, but later colonists on showships (as no known Terran confederation technology ever reached them, thus explaining some of the more modern references being incorporated into the society) reached there from other parts of the galaxy?Baggins (talk) 12:03, September 1, 2013 (UTC) ::On another note having a more firm dated and implied dates references as per Star*Soldier, linking Tri-System into Terran timeline, it would be possible to roughly convert important dates from the Tri-System timeline into Terran reckoning. If privateer occurred c. 2670, and before 2701. then that means 2790 is more or less equivalent to same year 2670, give or take. Movie timeline vs. main series timeline I'm curious where the movie deviates from the main timeline? Other than Bossman's reported death, and possibly Blair's backstory? Some of the CIC fans 'swear' that the novels themselves (in particular the unpublished but released Pilgrim's Truth) tie it directly into the main canon, and even tries to fix, and answers a few details from the main series and the movies as well. I know the movie novelizations definitely toss in a lot of name drops from both previous novels and the games. Also I've heard that there are some deviations between the game novels and the games themselves as far as certain dates, and characters or names?Baggins (talk) 23:05, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :The movie itself doesn't have much of a background, but the tie-in TCH is a source of much information, which however deviates from established canon, mainly in dates, like pushing the Kilrathi War later to make room for the Pilgrim War. You can consider them belonging to the same universe, or to different parallel universes, or partially shared universe; but whatever the case, the dates can't fit together in the same timeline. :I also have the impression that the movie was something like a reimagined WC universe, or reboot (although the concept was not common in 1999). I have read somewhere that the tie-in books refer to themselves as expanding on the "movie universe". It's expectable that they might include references to established canon, but until I read them, I can't form an opinion. :The middle way to resolve this, is to treat WC as a shared universe. That's why I haven't created pages like Christopher Blair (games) and Christopher Blair (movie) and Christopher Blair (Academy). That's also why some "general truth" articles (like pulsar or jump point) make references to the Handbook, the movie, the Academy series etc in one article, and let the reader understand them the way he prefers it in his mind. :But anyway, at this point I am far from being a WC expert, so I will be forming an opinion along the way as I explore more and more the WC universe and encounter the inconsistencies. MoffRebusMy Talk 09:43, September 3, 2013 (UTC) I have only read the first two movie novels, and it has been ages. I plan to go through them again now that the Pilgrim Truth has been released, but I have so much on my plate, including the fact I'm working through the Silmarillion right now. From what I remember the Pilgrim War and the Kilrathi war were actually occurring simultaneously according to the backstory given in the novels, in completely different sectors of space. Largely no crossover. Kinda like how Privateer took off in a different sector of space as well, and Kilrathi were only a minor involvement, but Church of Man and Pirates took center stage as the particular threat. The biggest issues I remember from the movie were the design of the Rapiers, and TIger's Claw deviating from the movie (Super Wing Commander did as well, but we can ignore that for the most part), Bossman's death occurring before WC1 begins, etc. I recall the Movie Novelization or the Movie Guide touched on Rapier issue, explaining it was an earlier or custom model, and phased out in later years. Bossman issue was never satisfactory explained but the guide, IIRC, kinda hinted that there was a huge cover-up on that front, and Bossman may have been undercover agent (thus implying that his death may have been 'faked'). Several interviews from Chris Roberts IIRC explains the hairless Kilrathi was more of a budget issue, to save money on the props. That being said I do like the idea of 'splitting' the timelines into individual articles concerning specific media interpretations. It makes it easier to follow. Although, at some point it might be cool to have a separate article, that bring together a more 'complete' timeline of all the sources, such as the ones done at the CIC (other than the fact that they appear to be completely wrong with the placement of Privateer 2 by trying to jam it into the Terran timeline despite the fact there is no direct connection). Also I agree 'shared universe' is the best way to go. The games were not always consistent on facts between each of them either. Like I said the game novels have some deviations despite generally being considered 'canon'. Major deviations are that the novels didn't always take the 'optimum' path, sometimes taking the worst case scenarios and then switching back to the winning paths. Sometimes it was character age discrepencies or background story discrepencies, and few alternate dates IIRC> I've only read 2-3 of the game novels though, and haven't been able to personally compare them to the games. I've only read some FAQS that listed the differences. It has been years since I played the games so a lot of my memories have faded, and its not as easy to just pull the game scripts (although some are up on the interwebs)Baggins (talk) 11:05, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :On a side note I think Chris Roberts doesn't consider Prophecy to be part of his universe, as he didn't have any involvement with it (IIRC in one of his interviews). If he was allowed to make a new game its unclear if he choose to incorporate it somehow being that many fans do like like the game, or if he would completely ignore it. Ron Gilbert for example had the same situation with Money Island, but he chose to work around the non Gilbert without ignoring them when he advised the Telltale team (albeit I understand his involvement in that series wasn't a lot either).Baggins (talk) 11:10, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :::Turns out that Star*Soldier the manual for Wing Commander Arena merges all kinds of details from the Movie, Games, Novels, and Handbook, etc. Pilgrims, Tri-System, even tries to explain the movie rapiers vs, what is seen the games. You might want to check out the timeline include in it. http://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/Star*Soldier[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] (talk) 11:11, September 6, 2013 (UTC) ::::I am already using S*S timeline as a source, at least until the point I have reached so far. Do you think it addresses the Tri-System discrepancy satisfactorily to you? As I said I can't have an oppinion on Privateer. MoffRebusMy Talk 12:41, September 6, 2013 (UTC) ::I think it took the same route that I figured out... That Privateer 2 must be around 2969-70 the same time as Privateer I, hence the appearance of the Talon fighter. As that mission in Privateer II was first contact between the two Confederations, it must mean that trade must have started after that betwe 2670 and 2701. It doesn't fix all the 'anachronisms' but then again Privateer 2 is somewhat satirical in most of hits material. As in snarky british humor, and camp. Think Dr. Who. There might even be a dr. who reference, when I was going through the datalogs.Baggins (talk) 12:57, September 6, 2013 (UTC) Jason Sansky Does that name get mentioned on a prop? Desk name plate or name tag? It's not mentioned in the script, and I don't feel like watching the movie again. Jay definitely can be short for 'Jason' of course.Baggins (talk) 14:06, September 6, 2013 (UTC) :I don't remember, but "Jason Sansky" is definitely in the credits. MoffRebusMy Talk 14:18, September 6, 2013 (UTC) :Credits listing ok, that makes sense as another place to check for alternate names! Of course "Jay" isn't always short for Jason, but I suppose its safe to assume that's the intent here.Baggins (talk) 14:20, September 6, 2013 (UTC) Game timeline I think that that timeline should be edited to include primarily only game and manuals only. This will leave the novel timeline for novel specific dates being discussed primarily in the novel timeline, for easier comparisons. The game timeline will include information from the various manual timelines though, and any references to the novels should be simplified as they are in those timelines, and not 'specific'. The gametimeline can use specifics from the games where known, and even point out 'alternate' scenes or different orders of events that occur in the game, vs a game novelization.Baggins (talk) 16:16, September 7, 2013 (UTC) G. Peterson Hmm, you didn't realize that G. Peterson and Peterson are not the same person? Different actor! Different scene. Different job positions. The Deck Boss in the novel is Raznick, and his scenes are pretty common in the film, every time people flying in or leaving. Peterson was a 'deckmaster' and was subordinate of Raznick. I think his job as to clean up things, and make sure everything is running efficiently while Raznick issues orders and makes sure ships come back or leave efficiently. The Handbook shows a completely different person as G. Peterson.Baggins (talk) 16:48, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :Hm I think the Handbook has messed it up. *Raznick in the credits is "Flight Boss" played by the late actor Simon MacCorkindale *Peterson in the credits is played by Kieron Phipps. In the Handbook it's "MCPO G. Peterson, Deck Boss" Do you suggest that Peterson of the movie and G. Peterson of the Handbook are different persons? Do you suggest that G. Peterson is actually Raznick? MoffRebusMy Talk 17:24, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::How is G. Peterson credited in the movie? Which actor portrays him? MoffRebusMy Talk 17:26, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :G. Peterson seems to share a role closer to that of the Raznick character, as in the one issuing orders and is the "Boss" of the deck. He has many scenes in the novel. As Peterson states in his Flight Rules, he is the "Boss". In the novel Raznick basically says this. Where as Deckmaster Peterson in the novel and his few appearances in the movie he's a subordinate to Raznick, fairly inconspicuous person. He's always being ordered around by Raznick. :As for the picture they chose for "G. Peterson", it looks more like a guy in a pilot uniform? Do you know whertaht image appears in the film? We could replace it with a color version. :Ya, I'd agree the Handbook messed up. There are quite a few issues I have with the Handbook! Lots of spelling errors too, and dating errors... Seriously Wilson being born in late 2400s?Baggins (talk) 17:31, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::I haven't read the novel. Does it mention two Petersons? Where is the image from? Is it from the novel? ::Do you own the original handbook, or do you read it from the WCpedia? MoffRebusMy Talk 17:41, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :Only one peterson in the novel, and he is a subordinate to the "Boss", "Flight Boss", "Deck Boss" Raznick. :The image for G. Peterson is shown twice in the Handbook in black and white. :I own the original handbook, I found an on line scan too, Pix's Origin Adventures website. :As for character and names, and images, I've been using the novel as a template, to find who appears in a scene portrayed both in the novel and the movie, and then grabbing the scene with that event. Seems reasonably legit. Might even able to fill an image in for Jones that way. Only issue being that in some cases the a single actor does the scene of two different characters, so I note that in the behind the scenes.Baggins (talk) 17:44, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::Right, I would do something like that myself once I come to reading the novelization. Notice that if you need, you can make use of in-line BtS info with the template (taken from Memory Alpha). MoffRebusMy Talk 18:27, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::Another thing to confirm would be actor Kieron Phipps, and confirm that the fat guy in the scene I put on Peterson page, is the same actor. Otherwise maybe there is yet another "Peterson"?Baggins (talk) 20:43, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::Well, once I got through searching through Pilgrim Stars, I think its confirmed that Peterson and G. Peterson are the same character (despite the poor use of wrong screenshot in the Handbook). Peterson is definitely refered to as the Deck Boss, just not the Flight Boss. Raznick is definitely his superior, and is the Flight Boss. The issue with the Handbook is it kinda combines Raznick and Peterson into one character who is both the Deck Boss, and the Flight Boss as per rule 1 of his list of rules, and the other character is implied to be the Flight Controller, and a subordinate to him. By his rules a Flight Boss could overrule anyone else pretty much. But in the handbook, he suggests he is the Flight Boss, so he can over rule everyone else. In the novel Raznick is the one who can order him around, because he is the flight boss. In the movie as the credits establish Flight Boss and Peterson are two separate characters, but they never directly interact. Peterson's part is rather limited. So ya, basically you can merge the two articles.Baggins (talk) 00:01, September 10, 2013 (UTC) Blueray Btw, is there a blueray of Wing Commander, and if so, would it allow a better job of making out finer details like the nametags, and numbers on the ships?Baggins (talk) 17:35, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :There is a blueray version, but I don't own a blueray device so I don't plan to purchase the movie in the foreseeable future. :) MoffRebusMy Talk 17:41, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::I have access to a blueray on one of my pcs, but have never bought a blue ray. Might try to find and rent a copy of there is a blue ray edition though.Baggins (talk) 17:45, September 7, 2013 (UTC) Here is the cast list as it appears in the film. So we can compare information. I notice Sansky is not listed as "Jason", and Knight is only Knight. In the film neither character are specifically named ("Sansky" is referred to in person in one mention, and Knight is only mentioned as Knight, and of course Knight and Sansky on the name tags). BTW, that offers another issue! Knight's nametag should be listing his last name, as is norm on all the other nametags, and his helmet should list callsign as the helmets do for other characters. So beyond the blatant continuity error, it actually implies his name is Knight, Callsign Knight! He is even referred to as "Mr. Knight" which sorta supports this. Hence explaining why there is a discrepancy between sources perhaps. The only source to have Jason listed that I could find was the "special features "cast" on the DVD. As for "Kahumelo" I'd still say that's definitely another misspelling in the Handbook, along with other editing issues in the book!Baggins (talk) 19:00, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :"Jason Sansky" is credited as such in the imdb. :In the movie "Mr. Hunter" is supposed to be a person with the surname "Hunter", a nod/reference to the Hunter of the WCI, not necessarily his counterpart. It's the Handbook and the credits which tie Mr. Hunter to Ian St. John of the game. I don't have a solution to this. MoffRebusMy Talk 20:17, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::IMDB is User submitted not official. The only source of Jason Sansky appears to be the special features credits of the DVD, and maybe possibly the Wing Commander Movie supplement magazine (I don't know if I still have access to that to know for sure). We should check the draft scripts to see if they offered some explanation to some of these alternate names? Hunter, and Ian St. John also confirmed in the novel. ::I never checked Hunter's scenes enough to see if it appears both as 'hunter' on his tag, and on his callsign. But you are probably right. He is only mentioned in one scene directly "This is Lieutenant Hunter of the T.C.S. Tiger Claw." ::ANother thing to check is also subtitles, although they aren't necessarily 'official' and just typed out by someone from third-party hearing corporation either off the script or by their own hearing, but I swear I saw Knight get called Khumalo in a scene (but I'd have to check to confirm that)! Baggins (talk) 20:31, September 7, 2013 (UTC) Contacting LOAF It might be useful to contact LOAF on the source of where Blair's uncle was killed in a farming accident, as well as the Jennifer leaving Nephele to remarry, and leaving BLair with his grandparents. He is one of the most informed of Wing Commander fans, and even has a huge personal collection of development and presskit materials,and his interviews with many of the Wing Commander developers etc. So it maybe something he's pulling from an obscure source. But at the same time its possible that he's misremembering details that relate to somebody completely different. I'd try to contact him to ask, but I don't recall my screename at the CIC, and haven't posted there in years. You wouldn't happen to have a membership? 12:25, September 10, 2013 (UTC)